Coming Home in a Pine Box

My first reaction to reading the story about “coming home in a pine box” was to remind President Romney’s dad to re-read Alma:39:11. Alma’s missionary son had become “unclean, lost his virture etc” while serving his mission. However, Alma didn’t come from the Zoramites in a “pine box” In fact, his father Alma gave him some of the greatest teachings we have on the Atonement of Jesus Christ. I’m sure after a period of time (probation, or disfellowshipment) his son repented and went back out on his mission. Something I’m not sure they would let a missionary do today! (maybe I’m wrong)

Another pretty common one I’ve heard around the church is the young women leader who passes around the plate of cookies with one being half eaten. Nobody wants the one with a bite taken out of it. Then she goes on to say it is the same for the girl who loses her virtue, nobody wants her either.

I personally know a girl who sat in such a lesson, who had already lost her virtue. She didn’t darken the doorway of the church for the next twenty years. And then, only after someone laboriously and tenaciously loved her long enough and well enough to show her that she was still “a daughter of God, who loves her.”

How long and hard is the laborious road we must take to recover those who are driven away by the the Pharisee in us.

Beautiful article. Just last week I attended the temple wedding of a worthy young man who was welcomed back home by the most loving and forgiving of parents. After living two years as a prodigal son, he came to himself and turned to his parents. They’ve been my best example of believing that Christ’s atonement is a working, living reality.

Kristen and Candleman-

Excellent examples of the importance of talking of Christ, preaching of Him, and prophesying of His arrival in our lives. It is so much better to speak of redemption than to dwell on hopelessness.

-Wally

I grew up on the Kenai Peninsula in Alaska in the sixties. Life in a frontier environment taught me early on that life can be fleeting – within a year or two of my high school graduation 5 of my former class-mates were dead from various types of accidents. Two more friends were lost in Viet-Nam.

I first encountered the “I’d rather see them dead than sinful” attitude when I started attending Ricks in 1972. I remember struggling to relate that sentiment with what I was learning about the Atonement in my religion classes….and wondering if people were actually thinking about what they were saying. I eventually concluded that living in a safe environment – being so removed from the actual threat of losing that child made it easier to mouth those words without thinking about them.

I don’t think I ever was able to completely and coherently verbalize my feelings until I read your essay today though.

Thanks.

I wonder what point Pres. Romney was making when he told this story. The same one you have made?
I am thankful to have hope in the atonement of our Savior, Jesus Christ. It is wonderful to know that we can keep striving.
There is a very fine line in teaching about repentance and the atonement. As can be seen by the comments, it can be taken to one extreme in that a person feels if he sins, he is forever lost. On the other hand, I’ve seen where people take it lightly and just decide to do whatever they want and they’ll repent later and all will be well. The Holy Ghost is definitely needed to teach about the wonder of the atonement so that ALL will be edified and understand.

There is a passage in the Doctrinal NT Commentary (p. 512) by Bruce R. McConkie that has bothered me since I first read it years ago. I have to believe it goes against everything we teach about the atonement.

“We may suppose that the elder son, accustomed as he was to obeying the will of his father, then went to the feast, welcomed his wayward brother in a compassionate manner, and rejoiced along with the father because the spiritually dead was born again, because he was lost to the kingdom had been reclaimed. But we need not suppose that the two sons were thereafter equal in power, honor or dominion. The inheritance of one was already wasted. As President Joseph Fielding Smith has written, “There is rejoicing in heaven over every sinner who repents; but those who are faithful and transgress not any of the commandments, shall inherit ‘all that the father hath,’ while whose who might be sons, but through their ‘riotous living’ waste their inheritance, may come back through repentance to salvation to be servants, not to inherit exaltation as sons. ” (JFS, The Way to Perfection, pp.21-22)

Oh, this upsets me. He will always be a servant he will never be a son? Aren’t we all sinners? No one except Christ did not transgress “any of the commandments.” Why would a prophet and an apostle promote such doctrine?

Charmain, Interesting sentiments. Clearly, the Atonement of Him Who did no sin, is infinite and eternal. On the other hand, as former YM’s leader and now as a Bishop, it is difficult to counsel with those youth who are truly trying to live a chaste life. Those who are trying to be in the “center of the Gospel” struggle as some of their peers are blatently involved in very serious moral transgression. Then when convenient, go to their bishop, go through the appropriate process, and receive forgiveness. It can be difficult to motivate and encourage to be good as some choose to go wayward, knowing that after a season of “fun and sin” they can have a temple marriage, etc. I read a quote years ago, (by whom I can’t remember) stating that forgiveness will come, but the spiritual progress missed during the time of sin, can never be reclaimed. Tough to help those keep on track who have always tried, and strayed as we all do, but only minimally. When some around seem to “enjoy” the things of the world and later the spirit.

I read this article in Meridian and my knee-jerk reaction was “SHAME on Pres. Romney for laying such a damning statement on his son!” Where was his Christlike compassion for his child? Why would ANY parent say he’d rather see his child dead than to sin? I understand the reasoning about wallowing in the filth of Satan’s lies, but I read it as there is no recovery from Sin while on your, especially if you are on a Mission. If this were true then there would be no reason for any of us to accept the Atonement, the great healing power of the Savior is what repentence is all about. There are so many aspects of the Atonement and this is one of the greatest aspects, to find forgiveness, to be born again in Christ, to desire to do His will, to change our lives from sin to the purity and simplicity and the safety of the Gospel. Sometimes it takes a great sin for us to appreciate the worth of our soul in the sight of God and to understand who we really are.

I caught this piece in Meridian Magazine. It may be the first good piece I’ve read there in a coon’s age. Let’s hope it gets to the right people and that they listen up. Nice job.

RB Scott
Boston, MA.

It’s not that I disagree with Wallace Goddard – its just that I think there is one important point he has not properly covered.

Of course the Saviour can redeem and save us. He truly has descended below all things and there is no sin so vile that it is not covered by the atonement. But Alma & Amulek taught that He came to save us from our sins, not in our sins. To be saved from our sins we need to recognize Him for who He is and then rely on what He has done for us as we strive to change our ways. Unless and until we do this, He cant help us. Alma had to repent “nigh unto death”

Some people seem steadfastly determined to deny even the possibility that He is our only hope – what they may have to go through before the penny finally drops dosnt even bear thinking about. That is why we need to treat all people with love concern and respect and “stand as an example of believers”. The spiritually blind and hard hearted and those that cause us huge grief could well have been our dearest friends at one time.

Alex Barclay
Chorley England Stake

I have always wondered how people could “fall into sin” as though it’s like a pool on the side of the road that we walk along and with one misstep we become engulfed in it, like falling into the deep end of a swimming pool.

One quote from the article brings this to mind, “Or what about the one who is making an honest effort but has fallen back into sin so many times that he feels that there is no possible way to break the seemingly endless pattern?”…it’s as though this person has vertigo whenever sin is involved and can’t help it, but seems to slip off the path that they’re on; only to get engulfed again.

When will we learn that whenever we break a commandment or law it is a CHOICE THAT WE MAKE and not something or a condition that is inflicted upon us or that comes to us and engulfs us without our knowledge or ability to resist. That is why Dr. Wally’s article is written as not to offend and to soft-sell accountability; that it, in and of itself, is offensive.

Let’s just rewrite the statement to show the accountability that all of us face; the way it needs to be stated. I would write it this way,”Or what about the one who (chooses to transgress God’s laws and commandments) so many times that he feels that there is no possible way to break the seemingly endless pattern?

There, now it is clearly stated and reflects the true accountability that each of us are under with regard to the choices that we make. There is no “poor me” attitude here where we ‘fall into sin’. We choose sin! and we choose it time and time again. Therefore we choose evil over good many times and have very little repentance in us if we keep choosing the same path….there is no such thing as falling into sin so many times, but only chosing to sin many times.

The key to repentance is turning from sin and doing it no more and coming unto Christ to let the atonement work in our lives. We then eschew sin and constantly do the works of Christ to invite the Holy Ghost to be with us at all times.

I have always thought of the parable of the prodigal son as being so much more than just showing acknowledgement of wrong doing and returning to the father. In the parable, the son who had lived the riotous life had simply returned; in fact, his poor circumstance of eating garbage had prompted him to return, or to start his repentance. He was treated the same as our Father would treat all who come unto him to start the process of repentance, he was clothed and accepted in his fathers house, just like we would and should be all welcomed into the meetings of the church just the same as the faithful who had never strayed. But, shall he be immediately be given all that the faithful have worked towards? Should the one who comes home for a day is fed and given raiment and says that they’re sorry be given full access to all eternal and saving ordinances upon their first day of acknowledging their sin without working for it? If so then the temple or House of the Lord should have a revolving door on it, and entrance be given to anyone who presents a social security card. I would think that not one person could say, “yes, let the transgressor who acknowledges his transgression receive all the blessings of the faithful.” Repentance doesn’t work that way.

We know this, that when he returned home, he’d only acknowledged his poor circumstance and had a desire to repent and possibly had started the process, but had not in the least become fully forgiven. We might also presume that had he not ran out of money, he’d still be out with the sinners enjoying himself.

That is why the father could tell his faithful son, all that you’ve been given is still yours. Because, until the prodigal had helped once again to build the fathers lands, or kingdom, then he would not receive of another inheritance. Thus, he was as a servant who had no claim on the landlords estate until he could work to build it and the landlord, through his grace, give him another inheritance that he once again had earned.

My opinions and fifty cents will get you a soda pop out of a vending machine, but don’t ever think that we fall into sin. We choose sin because of our agency; we choose to relish in it through same agency and we choose to repent because of that same agency.

I misquoted Dr. Wally. I thought that was his writing about falling into sin but he was evidently quoting another article and I did’t have it on my screen when I quoted it. I apologize to him for attributing a quote to him that was not his doing and railing on him about it.

Craig

I am offended by the tenor of the article and offended by a vast majority of the comments I read here.

Consider this, if “The fact is that learning and growth are more important than cleanliness.” is true, then there are certain occurrances in the scriptures that do not make sense. For example, why then did the three Hebrews resist Nebuchanezzar when he demanded they bow down and worship his idol or face death? If it is better to learn and grow than to be clean, they should have relented and worshipped and repented later? And what of Daniel who refused to obey the King’s edict about not praying to God? Daniel knew what the consequence would be and chose to obey rather than sin. Should he have relented and sinned and repented later? If that is the thrust of this article, then the author and his supporters are completely out of touch with what the scriptures teach.

Now, as to the young man in the prison setting who had been “rejected” by his adoptive family. There is much that may be missing here. I certainly hope that the author is aware that if your child is using illegal drugs and he is caught in your house with them you can also be arrested and prosecuted. That is a provision in most criminal codes everywhere in the US. If my son were using drugs and I knew about it, I would have no choice but to expel him in order to prevent my own arrest even though doing so would be incredibly painful.

Futher, I share my own experience which I think bears on the comment made by Brother Romney’s father which comment all of you seem to be riducling. My eldest son was called to serve in Brazil on a full-time mission. While there, he committed fornication and was ex-communicated and sent home. Having buried my youngest brother when he was only 14 and from helping my brothers bury children, I can tell you that the extreme sorrow I felt for my son who had transgressed so seriously was greater than the sorrow I felt at the deaths of my brother and my neices and nephews. Further, if given the choice between being obedient and dying versus committing fornication and living, I would have preferred my son chose death. At least then I would have known that he was clean and in Father’s presence instead of cut off, cast out, severed from the Kingdom of God.

Dear Dr. Goddard,
I appreciate and agree with the principles brought out in “Coming Home in a Pine Box”. However, in all these years I’ve never thought of it in the way you described. It simply seemed to me that there would be more joy in dying while in the service of the Lord than returning with a reset and the task of restitution, a part of repentance. Not that either sorrowful situation is desired or anticipated.

Assuming I am truly serving the Lord and the people I’m called to teach, and die for any reason, (murder, sickness, accident, resisting sin, etc.), this would be better than turning from the Lord, betraying the people I serve or whatever causes a dishonorable return. It has never been implied that dying because of sin is better than living to repent, nor that a dishonorable return would not be greeted with sympathy, encouragement, help and love. Otherwise there is a big need for repentance at home also. I just don’t see how to view the statement in the way you describe.

Craig: I agree that we all choose sin. It interests me though, to ponder why, the dog returns to his vomit or the sow to her wallowing in the mire.

I have been a sincere, committed dog, who was determined to never again return to my vomit. Still, I did, again and again. Then I discovered I was an addict. I had chosen to allow myself to be wrapped in the chains of hell. I had gradually and most certainly chosen to give me freedom away according to the captivity of the devil.

Recovering from addiction has taught me two very important things:
1. I needed the Savior to burst my chains for me. In the Atonement He did that very thing. He permitted Himself to be wrapped in my chains and then by the strength of his love and character, He burst them for me.

2. I needed to learn that my outward, addictive behavior was symptomatic of the deeper more insidious sickness of pride. The decisions which led to my misbehavior were usually made at times and places far removed from those moments of weakness when I used. At the instant of the outward sin, the choice, though I wasn’t aware, had long since been made. Thus, it seems like falling, when in reality, you’re oh so right, it was the result of a choice.

I’ve enjoyed reading this insightful discussion and hope that it will continue.

As Candleman pointed out, I think that many sins are tied to habits and addictions. Some sins are very apparent and easy to identify, but other sins, such as those related to our thoughts and feelings, although less apparent, are equally habitual, addictive, and insidious. By their very nature, we may not even realize that we inwardly and habitually have unkind and uncharitable thoughts and feelings toward others or that we judge, criticize, demean, etc. in our minds and in our hearts.

Even when we habitually doubt and fail to trust God, we are in a sense sinning. King Benjamin had it right when he said “I cannot tell you all the things whereby ye may commit sin; for there are divers ways and means, even so many that I cannot number them.” Hopefully we can be humble enough to recognize our sins- the ones that are evident as well as the less obvious ones.

The good news, as Wally as so aptly described, is that the way is prepared for all to escape the grasp of sin if we but have faith enough to follow the Savior.

This has been a most interesting discussion. As a convert, I am reminded of two great blessings that have come into my life since joining the LDS Church: First, how fortunate we are to have prophets who can help us understand the Lord’s will for our time. And second, how fortunate we are to have the Holy Ghost to help us on a spiritually personal level, even as we read the scriptures and ponder truth.

I think this discussion illustrates the mishaps we may face, in seeking through our somewhat limited and mortal understanding, to understand the eternal concepts of mercy and justice. If we truly trust our Heavenly Father and His plan, then we can trust that our Savior will judge us as ‘a righteous judge’ (Moses 6:57). We can also trust that the Holy Ghost will teach us, when we are ready, what we must do to repent and return to our Heavenly Father. All we have to do is to seek! But that is so much easier said than done, I understand. We all come to that seeking in different ways and at different times in our lives.

I believe that Wally was making the point that we must never make the mistake of thinking our Savior’s mercy or the power of His Atonement is limited if we truly desire to repent. Jesus does have the power to make us white as snow, though our sins be as scarlet.

For myself, I am very grateful for the lessons of mercy abundant in the sciptures. I am also grateful that the Savior has warned us against the dangers of judging according to our mortal understandings, as in ‘he who judges rashly shall be judged rashly’ (Mormon 8:19), or ‘men can not always judge’ (D&C 10:37) – (unless one has been set apart with priesthood keys for this purpose,such as bishops). We are freed from the burden of judging others. And even Bishops and such are given special gifts to help them in this awesome task. Perhaps parents are given similar gifts in knowing what they may say at times to their children? As a parent, in important conversations with my children, I can definitely tell when I am being led by the Spirit and when I am not. I have learned that if I am unsure, then I try to hold my tongue until I do know what to say.

On a personal level, we only need concentrate on what the Holy Ghost is telling us. I read somewhere that to repent means to turn to God (Wally, perhaps you can verify this for me?). I know that as I have turned to God, He has given me more light and knowledge as I was ready, and I was able to repent on deeper levels, and grow. How kind and merciful our Father is! How kind and merciful we should be towards each other. Warmly, Claudia

The title of your article immediately caught my eye because as a mother of sons, I have never thought I would rather see them dead than return home early from a mission due to immorality. When President Benson repeated this story in a talk that appeared in the Ensign, I was sad. I had hoped that we had left behind such a barbaric idea. I polled my friends, all mothers, to see if they agreed with the prophet. Not one would have preferred to see her son (or daughter) come home in a coffin.

And speaking as a former mission mother, I know that it was difficult for the ones that had to be sent home early from their missions, and it sometimes was a very hard road back to full fellowship, but they are better and stronger today for having made a serious course correction. The choice isn’t death without sin or life with sin. No one gets through this life without sin. The choice comes in what you are going to do about it.

I do believe that Pres. Romney was trying to impress upon our minds the seriousness of the sins of immorality. But I also believe that there are many who have slipped and are convinced that they are lost. Your article helps us to realize that we are not.

There seems to be a factor that we are not considering here. I am not contesting anything that has been said. I just think that we may be considering this idea with an either/or mentality.

Of course no one wants a child to experience premature death. But consider the story of Joseph F. Smith, you’ll remember it. He was a young man on a mission as I recall and was approached by some gun toting hoodlums. They claimed they were out looking for Mormons and asked Joseph if he was one. Joseph replied, “Yessiree, true blue, through and through!” In this case, they holstered their pistols and treated him kindly. But, what if they hadn’t. What if they’d shot him. Sure, we’d have missed him, but is death as bad as we consider it to be? Would his life have been worth living? Would his premature arrival in the Spirit world have left him useless and sitting idly by? Would having had his life cut short because he stood up for what he believed in have reduced the reward Heavenly Father had in store for him? Are we making too big a deal of death?

Standing for what’s right has it’s risks sometimes and there is virtue in standing for what’s right regardless of the outcome.

Here again, one may be taken and another spared. And….another in a moment of weakness may sin. There is hope and glory available to all three, through the merits and mercy of our Redeemer.

I am thankful for the insights in Bro. Goddard’s articles. I have yet to read one that didn’t leave me a better person. This particular article had great meaning for me, for many reasons. The comments have turned to speaking of modern day missionaries, specifically those who may come home early, dishonorably. I’ve had opportunity to be associated with one such young man very closely. My daughter just married him in the temple! We had known him for many years, loved him, loved his spirit and testimony…both of which were strong when he departed for his mission. I don’t know what happened, don’t want to know…it’s none of my business. I only know that when he came home early, and it appeared he and my daughter were going to get serious about a future together, I was troubled. I was afraid his dishonorable service would relfect on the level of commitment he would have the rest of his life. I prayed and prayed for a softer heart. I still dearly loved this young man, but I just didn’t know that I wanted my daugher to marry him! A couple of weeks before they married I sat in Sacrament Meeting and heard him bear his testimony. The Spirit bore witness to me, as he spoke, that he was a truly repentant son of God, and that our Father in Heaven had forgiven him and loved him….as should I. I realized it was my pride keeping me from embracing this upcoming union, and that was as serious a sin as anything he could possibly have done on his mission! As the Spirit of God washed over me, I felt a new, and renewed love for this young man. I also felt a deeper understanding of the Atonement, and how it applies to ALL of us. Missionaries, and thier transgressions, are so much more visible than what most of us do on a daily basis. We do not have the right, or the responsibility, to pass our own judgement on their worthiness. I am so thankful for a loving Father who blesses me with opportunities to feel the Spirit and learn from my own mistakes.

Thank you for your articles. They mean so much to me.

If you all haven’t already seen “States Of Grace” (aka “God’s Army 2”), then I highly recommend it since it touches on this subject, among others, in a beautiful way.

The pine box statement has often given me concern. I first heard it in seminary. I took it to heart as a young man. It formed a lot of my thinking in those early years.

It was brough back to me years later when I was having a discussion with my son several years after he had turned down a mission call. It turned out that this statement which he had heard in seminary was a major part of his decision.

A while ago, I was sitting in a special adult ward meeting, where a Sister representing our stake, was giving a presentation on young unwed mothers. There was concern that 90% of LDS girls who became pregnant, went to sources of support and information other than LDS Social Services. I wondered at the time, if the pine box statement was part of the reason. Can’t we find other ways of expressing our concern and love to our young people than reciting the pine box.

A Father

We talk a lot in the Church of the need to be good examples. Then we all proceed to be “perfect” examples by trying, to varying degrees, to appear perfect. The net result, I think, is a church full of folks who actually believe that many of their companions along the straight and narrow are just that, perfect.

Would we not all be better served if we all were examples of folks who are redeemed? I’m not suggesting that we all get out there and publicly confess our sins. I am suggesting though, that we need to be clear about our imperfection and our need for and success in obtaining “perfection in Christ.”

Too many Saints just don’t understand the vital role of Christ and the absolute necessity of relying upon His merits and mercy. Exemplary Latter-day Saints will manifest that instead of the often dishonest and hypocritical images we present in an effort to be “good examples.”

I think J. Golden Kimball’s great contribution to the church was his example. He told ordinary, flawed, members of the church that he was just like them and was constantly in need of repentance and forgiveness. Here is one of my favorite quotes from that great disciple of Christ: “I may not have walked the straight and narrow path, but I crossed it as often as I could.”

Another great article by Brother Goddard. I love the spirit of hope and the invitation to believe in and to trust the atonement. (I also learned a new word: “sacralize”!)

The oft-quoted “pine box” advice is very discouraging and misleading. Ironically, this advice itself is sinful if it manifests an unwillingness to forgive. However —— and maybe I just have a problem with the article’s subtitle —— I wish the article had acknowledged (as have some of the above comments) that there is a sense in which sin IS worse than death: IF WE REMAIN UNREPENTANT.

• That is why, in his relating of the death of 1,005 repentant Anti-Nephi-Lehis, Mormon (or is it Alma) says that their death was outweighed by the repentance of more than 1,000 that was brought about by their sacrifice. (See Alma 24, especially verses 26-27.)

• That is why the Savior taught, “Be not afraid of them that kill the body … but … fear him, which … hath power to cast into hell.” (Luke 12:4-5)

Yes, there is always hope, and I never want to discount the power of the atonement, but there are things worse than physical death. I would suggest that both an unwillingness to repent, and an unwillingness to forgive are worse.